Optics Vs. Iron sights

[Jimski]

Originally Posted by hollywood...

iron sights do not require batteries

and they're light

[Emre1337]

Any iron sights with tri rail system? Lmao jkz, in all seriousness are T1's those little red-dots they use primarily for PDW's? I like the Aimpoint M68's, those look pretty badass in my opinion.

[MADDOG]

Instinctive shooting, I use neither anymore , but when I do I use "dos" iron sights.

[Red Dot]

I use a replica T1 but I think for CQB I'm going to start strictly using iron sights. With the quick reaction time I find hunting around for the dot to be a hindrance when caught by surprise, would be better to shoot first and adjust based off of that.

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by Red Dot

I use a replica T1 but I think for CQB I'm going to start strictly using iron sights. With the quick reaction time I find hunting around for the dot to be a hindrance when caught by surprise, would be better to shoot first and adjust based off of that.

How would you rate the T1? The more I look at them the more I feel like trying one out.

[FirestormX]

The idea that because irons are "made for the gun", they will be more accurate than an optic, is incorrect. The concept of sending a projectile down a tube in "a straight line" (in the sense that you're not lobbing artillery or something) will be the same for both aiming devices. Bullet drop/wind will effect your aiming regardless of optic or iron, and so on.

If I understand you correctly, when you say your the red dots aren't "lining up with your lower barrel", it sounds like it's just a height over bore issue. That will happen with both irons and optics. You're supposed to zero your gun to a certain distance, due to your aiming device's height over bore.

Things like RDSes and holos are meant for faster and easier target acquisition.

For example, as you're bringing your weapon up, you can see the red dot moving to target, rather than waiting for your iron sights to line up, and then adjusting as needed. Similarly, you should be aiming with both eyes open whenever possible, and an RDS is a lot easier to pick up than irons.

As far as using optics "vs" reactive shooting, they should be the same thing. If you're doing reactive shooting, and you have an optic, then your dot should be on your target when you pull the trigger. If you can't get the optic to your eye by the time you pull the trigger, then so be it. But they shouldn't necessarily hinder you.

I hope that someone else sees the irony in "Red Dot" using irons. :P

[Akinno]

Fogging is a big issue for me, and I find that when your goggles develop even a little fog, it obscures your vision and it makes it more difficult to aim at your target and line up iron sights.

For me, illuminated optics resolve this, to some degree.

I run a T1 micro red dot.

[lurkingknight]

I like reflex sights... fill the reticle with target... pull trigger, done.

This is assuming you know how to zero it. :P

[kullwarrior]

I ran irons, clone fixed optics, clone red dot, and real red dots.

IMHO if you are someone into making your shot counts, having a good sight is crucial. If you run BB hose, I guess you really don't need any.

Irons are great to a certain extent. They're more affordable and will not fail if you have quality ones. The draw back is the use in low-light and target acquisition time

Fixed Optics are great to see where your bbs go and make your shot adjustment. Anything over 4X in airsoft is excessive

Red dot: They're awesome once you sighted in (PITA in airsoft since the grouping aren't as consistent) I prefer to sight them using the parallel zeroing -this means my dot is always aiming XX distance above point of impact since hopup should've make the bb have a flat trajectory before the rapid drop at the end.
The main draw back for red dot is quality.
Some of the cheapo red dot does not maintain zero at all, some gets completely washout during day time, and some of them when you use make the adjustment they're erratic and does not give you consistent result (1 click may move the dot 1 inch @ 100m, and the next moves 2 inches)
I went through so many clone red dot before biting the bullet and purchase a real Aimpoint. It's one of my best purchase made (I've went through several guns, but the optics stays the same) Benetfit of real (or a really good clone ie Primary Arms) optic; adjustment are consistent, it doesn't washout during daytime, and it maintain zero (I can strip if off to clean my gun and put it backon without noticeable shift in zero)

[Emre1337]

Wow I never realized optics were so complicated =P. @ FirestormX, when you said "you should be aiming with both eyes open whenever possible", I'm not sure what the correct term is but if you use a red-dot with both eyes open, wouldn't you see 2 red-dot's? As for the height over bore issue, when I use my 45 degree angle mount with a red-dot, the barrel and dot don't line up as in one on top of the other like when you use a red-dot as a primary sight and keep your rifle straight, my canted sight (when I tilt my rifle to my left, red-dot is on an angle to the right) the red-dot always points to the left of where my bb's normally go, so if I was to zero my red-dot, even though it's not straight with my barrel, I could technically zero it for X distance and even though it is offset, will my bb's hit where the red-dot is pointed?

[FirestormX]

Originally Posted by Emre1337

if you use a red-dot with both eyes open, wouldn't you see 2 red-dot's?

Depending on how open the optic is, you might be able to see the dot with both eyes - but generally you need to be looking straight down the optic (which you can only do with one eye at a time) to see the dot.

Even with the fact that you can only see the dot with one eye, it still requires a bit of training to be able to pick up the red dot with your one eye, and focus on where it is.
It's just a lot easier to pick up a bright dot in a single eye, than to line up two posts, that are the same colour as your gun, that both eyes can see.

As for your angled RDS, I haven't done much learning - or any practice - with that, to be honest. There's been threads that mention that here on ASC, but I haven't dug into them.

My best guess would be that you mount them, zero them as best you can to a specific distance (preferably close, since you've probably only got them for close distances), and just learn to shoot from there. You should be tilting the gun on its side, so that the angled RDS is actually "on top" of the barrel.

[Emre1337]

Originally Posted by FirestormX

Depending on how open the optic is, you might be able to see the dot with both eyes - but generally you need to be looking straight down the optic (which you can only do with one eye at a time) to see the dot.

Even with the fact that you can only see the dot with one eye, it still requires a bit of training to be able to pick up the red dot with your one eye, and focus on where it is.
It's just a lot easier to pick up a bright dot in a single eye, than to line up two posts, that are the same colour as your gun, that both eyes can see.

As for your angled RDS, I haven't done much learning - or any practice - with that, to be honest. There's been threads that mention that here on ASC, but I haven't dug into them.

My best guess would be that you mount them, zero them as best you can to a specific distance (preferably close, since you've probably only got them for close distances), and just learn to shoot from there. You should be tilting the gun on its side, so that the angled RDS is actually "on top" of the barrel.

Thanks for clearing that up FirestormX, I have noticed that significant training is required to use red-dots quickly and effectively. I'll do some more digging on ASC to see if there are any threads on angled RDS. How about using an RDS with the front post sight up? Wouldn't that theoretically speed up the time it takes to sight in a target compared to just and RDS, since the front post can be used as a reference point as to where the red-dot will point (obviously after zeroing your RDS and have it line up with the post sight)?

[zzzzsleepy8]

Non magnifying optics are better than irons I think. The only downside is battery, hence why people move to BUIS instead where you don't use them unless you absolutely must.

Red dots and holosights don't require you to be parallax with the barrel. With sights you must align the front and back. This requires you to look down the gun at a certain position. With well zeroed red dots, as long as dot is on target, it should go there. You don't need to look down parrallel to the barrel the same way you need with irons. So your rifle holding stances can be more forgiving.

Also, you can keep both eyes opened when using red dots, allowing a better field of view.

I think optics for sure over irons. Irons are backup.

[Emre1337]

It may sound ridiculous but I completely forgot that you could adjust for windage with most RDS. In that case I could still use my canted red dot and just adjust the dot more to the right and that way my bb's should hit the money.

[-=ArchAngel=-]

Originally Posted by Emre1337

Thanks for clearing that up FirestormX, I have noticed that significant training is required to use red-dots quickly and effectively. I'll do some more digging on ASC to see if there are any threads on angled RDS. How about using an RDS with the front post sight up? Wouldn't that theoretically speed up the time it takes to sight in a target compared to just and RDS, since the front post can be used as a reference point as to where the red-dot will point (obviously after zeroing your RDS and have it line up with the post sight)?

But still a lot less than iron sights. That is the opinion of many professionals. Using red dots is as simple as keeping both eyes open, placing the reticule over the target, then pulling the trigger.