City of Markham Ontario bans all replica firearm sales with new by-law 2012-196

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by mmmken

This is what worries me. It is black and white as to what "replica firearms" refers to in this context since they basically redefined the meaning here. If you get caught selling in Markham, you will be affected by this by-law.

Armyissue, I don't think the RCMP ruling has anything to do with this since the by-law has nothing to do with ownership, and thus there are no legal conflicts.

Local bylaw does not supercede federal law. They cannot arbitrarily redefine what a replica firearm is. If that's what they're actually meaning to do good luck with that, because it won't stand up in court.

[mmmken]

An update to my previous comment. I did some digging and found the actual bylaw. I'm actually now unclear as to whether Airsoft is or isn't considered a replica firearm in the context of this bylaw.

Source: http://jhcomputer.ca/msf/bylaw.pdf

[MaciekA]

I'm just going to restate this for anyone skimming this thread or the quoted bylaw text....

The bylaw in question specifically mentions airsoft guns, and therefore appears to attempt to locally override any other definition of "replica firearm".

Secondly, it specifically singles out public nuisance and disturbances as the motivation for this law.

If this is the way things are going to go, the airsoft community will have to act proactively instead of reactively.

I personally think the United Kingdom's UKARA / VCR system is a good model to follow, and should potentially be offered up as an alternative to an outright ban. Sticking our heads in the sand will just lead to copycat bylaws elsewhere.

[MASAKO]

The city currently waste our tax money on something which is not necessary to do so, they should concentrate about the gang and violence crime than fake or replica firearm. I sometime hope, the gang war will use replica firearm than actual firearm itself. It took me more time, paper work and risk to acquire a replican firearm than getting a PAL and RPAL.

[Azathoth]

I agree with the ^ style UKARA regulation. FYI I am actually surprised it has taken this long for a municipality to enact something like this.

IE I am more surprised it got out of the backroom and will be put to a city council.

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by mmmken

An update to my previous comment. I did some digging and found the actual bylaw. I'm actually now unclear as to whether Airsoft is or isn't considered a replica firearm in the context of this bylaw.

Source: http://jhcomputer.ca/msf/bylaw.pdf

Thanks for posting this, it sucks that it specifically mentions airsoft guns.

Practically-speaking, I don't think it matters whether the bylaw would stand up in court, etc etc. What matters is that it brings unwanted attention and unwanted heat. York region police are going to have marching orders to cause trouble for airsoft enthusiasts.

That, aside from speculation about the momentum that it adds to anti-airsoft measures elsewhere, is the key take-away here.

[shinobii]

Originally Posted by Armyissue

"replica firearm” means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm, and that itself is not a firearm

ASG are Firearms.
Crap soft is not, unless you paint it Black lol.


No Mach 1 is not in Markham.

Thanks for clarifying! We most certainly are not, and the products we sell to promote the sport of airsoft are NOT replicas. The incorrect use of the word "Replica" is disturbing. All legally imported airsoft guns firing the correct fps, are deemed firearms, and not replicas.

[Janus]

Still, this is a pretty big stormcloud for us. I guess it is positive in a way that now I can literally POINT to laws being made (albeit by-laws, but still) that are a direct result of retards in public with airsoft guns.

[Ayashifx55]

It means ASG prices might boost up.

[tygr701]

Markham definitely took a step back on this one. They should be putting their time and resources into reducing the frequency of actual criminal violence and gang related incidents. Not this bs. At least not all is lost regarding interpretation and application of the law at the provincial and federal level.

I don't feel I should have a need for a license like the UKARA laws in the U.K. nor bright green guns either.

As George Carlin famously put : George Carlin - airsoft guns - YouTube

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Local bylaw does not supercede federal law. They cannot arbitrarily redefine what a replica firearm is. If that's what they're actually meaning to do good luck with that, because it won't stand up in court.

Not at all true.. as they are not charging with criminal offenses. Municipalities can't redefine what a replica is UNDER THE CRIMINAL CODE

for a city Bylaw offense.. they can define a replica as anything they want

Halton region for example defines a firearm as "anything that fires a projectile"
this would technically include a drinking straw and spitball...

don't confuse Non criminal civil bylaws with Criminal law.

The burden of proof is very low to be convicted of a bylaw offence. The bylaw officers sworn statement is generally considered evidence enough to issue the fine.

[everett]

Originally Posted by Affliction

The only people buying airsoft guns in Markham are kids and their parents at Pacific Mall.

Ten bucks says that most of those stores will walk 20 meters across the street and open shop in Splendid China Tower, which is south of Steeles and technically in Toronto.

I am one of the store in Pacific Mall and kids with their parents does not buy gun in the mall. Only concern I have is they haven't give us any consultation period to ask for our opinion and shutting down our business right away which is not cool at all

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by shinobii

Thanks for clarifying! We most certainly are not, and the products we sell to promote the sport of airsoft are NOT replicas. The incorrect use of the word "Replica" is disturbing. All legally imported airsoft guns firing the correct fps, are deemed firearms, and not replicas.

under the Criminal code.. but under this bylaw they certainly are.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by everett

I am one of the store in Pacific Mall and kids with their parents does not buy gun in the mall. Only concern I have is they haven't give us any consultation period to ask for our opinion and shutting down our business right away which is not cool at all

no it's not cool at all .. and I'd be making a big stink about it if I where in your situation.

[venture]

I like the part about crimes with "replica guns". If I am robbed at gunpoint, I hope to God the robber is using an airsoft gun! Whether I know it or not it is inherently safer. LOL!