G3SG1 tuning motor

[dami]

Hi,
OK, I took my gun to my gun doctor and he replaced the piston head and tuned the motor for me. After I took it back home and in the basement on SEMI after 5 good shots, then 2-3 dryshots; then same cycle again 5-6 shots, 2-3 dryshots(nothing goes out the barrel) . On full auto, 3 X 2 second shots are ok, but the 4th and 5th or so is dry fire again. The cycle repeats itself. What to be done now?Is that what all AEGs do? Battery is recharging right now.
BTW G3SG1(SP90, new Systema gears, new Tokyo Marui Piston, new piston head)
Change motor to eg1000 from eg700...is that gonna help?
Thank you,
Danny

[Kid]

Sounds like the gear timing is off... (?)
Or possibly something is screwy with the tappet plate, nozzle or hop-up, but it sounds to me like gear timing.

It shouldn't have anything to do with the motor.

Anyway, that's my uneducated opinion, come and tell me I'm wrong! Or horribly right, that would be accepable too.



Edit - A myth? Oh darn, and I just based my entire post around that... don't I feel stupid. Anyway... Yeah, I have been inside a mech, only an ICS, but still a mech, the geartiming thing didn't really make much sense in there... thanks for clearing that up though!

[dami]

tapped plate was replaced.
how would you time the gears?
move the motor up and down until you get it to work?

[Lisa]

Gear timing is a myth, you'd know this if you opened a mechbox kid.

Dami: did you try with different mags? Also the mechbox may not be seated just right... I'd go to the gun doc you saw and get him to fix it for free.

[mcguyver]

Turn your hop-up completely off. You may have too much hop-up and your bb's get stuck in the chamber.

And like Lisa said, there is no such thing as gear timing.

[dami]

Problem with the hopup was fixed a long time ago...last summer when I got it and used at DeadLands(the piece of rubber in the hop up was a mess, therefore replaced..all fine). Then, out of the blue, the problem of gear and motor head to be positioned right. Making all type of sounds until...Fixed .....minutes ago.
thx all for help

[jtf2-phalanx]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

Turn your hop-up completely off. You may have too much hop-up and your bb's get stuck in the chamber.

And like Lisa said, there is no such thing as gear timing.

Well, you can't really say that... if you had the sector gear engaged on the piston halfway through it's teeth I can't see how the gun would fire properly. The piston would go back halfway and you'd get a weak FPS because it wouldn't retract all the way. That's common sense though and I can't see even the dumbest "gunsmith" doing that. :grin: But then you'd have a hell of a time closing up that badboy I think. Anyways, my assumption was hop-up setting as well or a screwed up hop-up sleeve. Have you cleaned the barrel? Just a thought.

Edit * Damn I was too slow typing all that. *

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by jtf2-phalanx

Well, you can't really say that... if you had the sector gear engaged on the piston halfway through it's teeth I can't see how the gun would fire properly. The piston would go back halfway and you'd get a weak FPS because it wouldn't retract all the way. That's common sense though and I can't see even the dumbest "gunsmith" doing that. :grin: But then you'd have a hell of a time closing up that badboy I think. Anyways, my assumption was hop-up setting as well or a screwed up hop-up sleeve. Have you cleaned the barrel? Just a thought.

Edit * Damn I was too slow typing all that. *

Even if you had the first gear half engaged or even all the way engaged it would reset it's self after the first turn... so yes I can say that.

[mcguyver]

Ditto. And besides, how would assemble a version II box with the sector gear partially engaged anyway? You'd lose the anti-reversal latch as the piston, being pushed by the spring, trys to reverse the gear train. And many different variations of bevel gears have different numbers of anti-reversal stops. I've seen from 1 to 5 depending on brand of gear and I don't sunscribe to the myth of trying to "time" and anti-reversal stop with sector gear position.

Gear timing is the BIGGEST myth in airsoft. Timing is defined as being differing actions required to coincide with each other at varying points. As only the sector gear perfoms multiple interlocking actions, namely driving the piston, engaging the semi-auto release bar and pulling on the tappet to move the nozzle, there can be NO TIMING. The interlock points on the sector gear are fixed and NOT ADJUSTABLE at all.

But any "amatuer" gunsmith would know this, frankly, even a smart person opening up a mechbox once knows this.

[jtf2-phalanx]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

Ditto. And besides, how would assemble a version II box with the sector gear partially engaged anyway? You'd lose the anti-reversal latch as the piston, being pushed by the spring, trys to reverse the gear train. And many different variations of bevel gears have different numbers of anti-reversal stops. I've seen from 1 to 5 depending on brand of gear and I don't sunscribe to the myth of trying to "time" and anti-reversal stop with sector gear position.

Gear timing is the BIGGEST myth in airsoft. Timing is defined as being differing actions required to coincide with each other at varying points. As only the sector gear perfoms multiple interlocking actions, namely driving the piston, engaging the semi-auto release bar and pulling on the tappet to move the nozzle, there can be NO TIMING. The interlock points on the sector gear are fixed and NOT ADJUSTABLE at all.

But any "amatuer" gunsmith would know this, frankly, even a smart person opening up a mechbox once knows this.

I hope you're not trying to insult me as I was just stating what I thought would happen if you tried to put the sector gear in a "half engaged" position. If you held the anti-reversal latch down while it was engaged on the bevel gear you might be able to quickly slap the mechbox together but that would be extermely difficult, which was kind of the point of my post. I've always put that gear in the same position for all my guns as a habit just because I've always done so. I'm an amatuer gunsmith and hopefully a relatively smart person but that last statement doesn't seem to hold true because a lot of others on this board have the same habits as I do. I could go listing them but why bother? You've already decided that everyone who thinks gear timing is essential or expresses his opinions to the working of an AEG (contrary to this new found knowledge), is a relative moron.

But, I will try it on one of my guns that I don't care too much about to see it for myself. Thank Lisa that helps a lot but I don't think I'll change the way I position that gear just because that's the way I've always done it. But you are correct. Kind of like how I put all my computers together with the same type of screws and in the same positions for drives and such. Just habits.

Hey if this is true then I shouldn't be worried about opening up my PSG-1 and messing with the timing for that right? That's the only mechbox i haven't opened yet because everyone seemed to be like "Timing the gears is everything in that mechbox!"

"What we are trying to say is that as long as the sector gear is in a position where all the teeth are facing downward (a position anywhere between 12:30 and 3:00, such that no tooth is in touch with the piston at the time of installation), it will do fine. Still, by having the gear "one o'clocked", you can enjoy a slightly faster initial response time (and peace of mind too). That’s all."

This is why i kind of like the idea of "timing" the gears. Peace of mind. :tup:

[mcguyver]

No, I wasn't trying to insult you or anything. I was just makeing a point. I've yet to open the mechbox on a PSG-1, but as there is another interlock (the ejection port), there may be some kind of timing issues there.

When I put together a mechbox, I usually do as you do and put the sector gear to the 1 o'clock postion for the first tooth. Just a habit as well, but as the motor spins at something like 20,000 + rpm prior to a large load engagement, that little bit of distance travelled by the sector gear if it was in the 3 o'clock position, would be in the thousandths of a second anyway. Not enough to make any noticable difference for a bb flying at 300 fps.

That's why "timing" is a myth.

[dami]

that's a lot of info on mechboxes,gears, gear positioning so on and so on. Thing is I don't believe I'll open another mechbox v2 v3 or any version anytime soon. Last time I tried and I screwed up misserably. That's why I had to replace everything pretty much. The piston twice, all the gears, piston head, tapped plate, all new TMs. Downed the spring to 150% from 170%....the list goes on.
thx guys and girls

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by jtf2-phalanx

But, I will try it on one of my guns that I don't care too much about to see it for myself. Thank Lisa that helps a lot but I don't think I'll change the way I position that gear just because that's the way I've always done it. But you are correct. Kind of like how I put all my computers together with the same type of screws and in the same positions for drives and such. Just habits.

Hey if this is true then I shouldn't be worried about opening up my PSG-1 and messing with the timing for that right? That's the only mechbox i haven't opened yet because everyone seemed to be like "Timing the gears is everything in that mechbox!"

"What we are trying to say is that as long as the sector gear is in a position where all the teeth are facing downward (a position anywhere between 12:30 and 3:00, such that no tooth is in touch with the piston at the time of installation), it will do fine. Still, by having the gear "one o'clocked", you can enjoy a slightly faster initial response time (and peace of mind too). That’s all."

This is why i kind of like the idea of "timing" the gears. Peace of mind. :tup:

Even if the teeth weren't facing down and the piston wasn't moved from it's initial starting point (think the sector gear having half turned with the piston not moved) it would reset it's self after the first shot, how ever it's alot easier to put a mechbox together with the teeth not engaged.

As for the PSG-1 gearbox I've never opened one nor have I looked at any diagrams/pictures/instructions for one so I know nothing about them, but we're not dealing with the PSG-1 here, so that's irrevelant.

[jtf2-phalanx]

Originally Posted by Lisa

As for the PSG-1 gearbox I've never opened one nor have I looked at any diagrams/pictures/instructions for one so I know nothing about them, but we're not dealing with the PSG-1 here, so that's irrevelant.

Agreed, I should have started my own thread but since we were talking about timing I brought it up... my bad.