AK vs M4 (AR)

[Ov3rWatch]

I've been following this thread and I think I get where you're coming from. That being said let me say that the following opinions and observations are from someone who has owned only AR's and has tried their teamates AK's.

So I've had VFC 416D for 2 years now. I generally play every Saturday for at least 6 hours so in total I've put 540-600 hours and well over 180,000+ bb's through the gun (yes I shoot alotand to many of your guys' disbelief most of that was done in semi). So that being said I won't call myself and expert on the vfc 416d but I am very familiar with it.

Externals

Externally, I think the quality and build is superb. It feels solid and it feels like it could take and has taken a heavy fall or two without breaking. The trades are all beautifully there. I will admit that the quad rail can be a but sharp so I would recommend rail covers or at the very least some good gloves. As of right now though she currently has a Geiselle rail repro from Hao and I love her all the more.

A negative some of my teamates have though is that they dislike the bump in the pistol grip but for some (like me) it doesn't bother me.


Performance (stock)

Out of the box and stock, the 416 shot 390-400fps on .20's. The range was acceptable (to me at least) at about 170-180ft effective range (hitting a man sized target) and I would be lobbing bb's to get 200-210ft. At this time when I first had the gun I would normally shoot 0.28's with it.

The VFC 416 out of the box was definitely better then the field's rental guns and better then most beginner brands (though I will say G&G's are amazing beginner guns now) I was not happy with the trigger response. Sometimes the gun would jam by getting stuck on a half cycle in semi. To fix the jam, you would have to put it into full-auto, shoot, then put in back to semi. Personally I was not a fan of this. So I upgraded the gun.

Internals

Internally I had a gen2 vfc 416d gear box. What this meant was that I had the newer red vfc tappet plate and cyclinder and a basic mosfet. All that I upgraded in the gear box was ditching the, what I think was, stock vfc high speed motor and the gears and replacing them with a Tienly 40k Motor (high speed & high torque) and SHS 13:1 gears.

To improve range and precision I got someone to r-hop a PDI 275mm 6.05mm barrel and I use an m-nub on the hop arm. I can't remember what hop-up sleeve I'm using.

Needless to say with those upgrades I got a much better trigger response and amazing distance and accuracy with the r-hop (200-215ft effective range and 250+ft max range on 0.32's).

What broke

The gun's been good to me sometimes I think too good. I use and abuse her and she still keeps shooting. The first thing to go for me was the stock tappet plate at about 60,000rds. The next thing to go was the stock piston which finally stripped at 90,000rds. Finally at about 130,000-140,0000rds the trigger post finally went. Luckily a teammate had another VFC gearbox and now I'm using that one. In between those failures I've had other minor ones but those were more so due to user errors.

Pros (my own opinions)

+ Ergonomically feels better due to balance
+ ALOT of rail space for attachments
+ Easy for me to add a vert grip because I have tendonitis in my wrists so c-clamping is very uncomfortable.
+ A bit easier to handle because I'm not magwell gripping (most ak users will do this but balance feels very front heavy on an AK when I do this)
+ I guess reloads are easier
+ More flexible to what batteries you want to use
+ Smaller gun, so I feel easily more maneuverable on cqb fields
+ The upper receiver sits higher then other m4's so if you like to wear a mesh mask or paintball mask you don't have to push your face in has hard to look down your sights.

Cons

- Working on a V2 gearbox is a pain in the A$$ without a quick change spring system
- Is VERY picky with mags (I use pts epms)
- Did not like the butt stock because the pad was convex so replaced it with a PTS CTR
- People say it's an overall heavier gun the other m4's


Overall I love my VFC 416D I'm still looking for the right AK for me but my 416 will always be my baby. I hope this helps and if you have more questions about the 416 feel free to ask.

[Einstein]

I'd like to start by excusing my lack of presence, university is keeping me very busy, and this thread fell low on my priority list.

Originally Posted by Ov3rWatch

I've been following this thread and I think I get where you're coming from. That being said let me say that the following opinions and observations are from someone who has owned only AR's and has tried their teamates AK's.

Thanks Ov3rWatch this was definitely a huge addition to this thread. Since you know the 416 pretty well I do have a question: are some of the parts proprietary? I've heard some guys say that some externals were proprietary (they mentioned the front rail) I've also heard the gearbox was slightly longer. But i've met some people tell me the 416 is completely compatible with the classic M4 base.

[Einstein]

I haven't mastered my AK entirely as others pointed out, my tech skills are still entry level and my reloads need much improvement.

people who have run both platform, would you say buying entry level airsoft's of each platform and familiarizing myself with both of them be a good plan of action before dropping the serious cash into what will ultimately become my next "Longterm Build"?

[xevous]

VFC 416 has all standard internals, any v2 gearbox parts will fit fine, the gearbox is interchangable with all the other v2 VFCs. The upper is the most drastically different part, you need to get specific 416 rails as it is taller than a normal AR/M4. The grips, buffer tube, stock are all normal.

For me I'd say just buy a good upgrade base like a VFC AR/416 or an LCT ak. The money you send one some entry level crap will be wasted when you eventually get something up upgrade, might as well save and get a good one off the bat.

[Desmodus]

Originally Posted by xevous

For me I'd say just buy a good upgrade base like a VFC AR/416 or an LCT ak. The money you send one some entry level crap will be wasted when you eventually get something up upgrade, might as well save and get a good one off the bat.

This. Just buy something good to start with, and upgrade as you see fit.

[Ov3rWatch]

Originally Posted by xevous

VFC 416 has all standard internals, any v2 gearbox parts will fit fine, the gearbox is interchangable with all the other v2 VFCs. The upper is the most drastically different part, you need to get specific 416 rails as it is taller than a normal AR/M4. The grips, buffer tube, stock are all normal.

Xevous pretty much nailed it on the head. So if you plan on changing the rail system just do your homework before buying and you'll be fine.

As for what you heard about proprietary parts such as bigger gear box and what not, your friends may have been talking about the vfc 417.

[Einstein]

Situation update: so the team is at an impasse about the direction to take, so I doubt we'll actually agree on something anytime soon.

In the meantime I have bought a used classic army m4. I'll be playing with both bases for a while and drop my experience here to keep this rolling.