$600+ AEG's. Internal Quality.

[ThunderCactus]

I've shot dozens of fully upgraded AEG's, 2 R-hopped AEG's, 4 different all fully upgraded bolt action rifles, and 4 different PTWs. You know who people come to when they want an AEG to shoot really far in Winnipeg? Wrath and I. And guess what? We both owned PTWs.

Problems we run into, is people who claim AEG's are better but have never shot nor SEEN a PTW before. And most people with PTWs have never shot fully PROPERLY upgraded AEG's before.
I've got no motive in lying about one being better than the other. Being a gunsmith, I make more money off people having AEG's since they inherently break down more often, so it would be in my best interest to push people to upgrade AEG's. What kind of idiot spends $3000 on a brand new PTW when a $900 AEG works just as well? You think if I knew that AEG's were better, I'd sell my PTW for $2500, buy a PAIR of AEG's, upgrade them to shoot just as well, and have $900 left for whatever. Well I haven't. Why? Because the PTW is just better, and it's consistently better.

You take a group of 10 G&Ps, all high end guns, and fully upgrade all of them, 4 of them will shoot great, 3 of them will shoot okay, and one will just be a straight out demon gun.
Take 10 PTWs, hop mod all of them, they'll all shoot exactly the same.
And for the amount of effort it takes to just send off a hop chamber and barrel to mac to mod the hop for a PTW, you know how much tinkering and testing and adjusting and hours of labor and LUCK it takes to make an AEG perform close to the same?

[iKliiu]

It takes me less than 30 min to install a R hop, and tuning isn't hard either. I'd much rather have a 40 RPS R-hopped AEG than a 20 RPS PTW. It might be true that I have never seen an fully upgraded PTW before, but it cannot differ too much from a standard AEGs; both use hop ups to achieve range. Each man to his own, but I enjoy the overwhelming firing power from a high speed setup more.

[Curo]

Originally Posted by iKliiu

It takes me less than 30 min to install a R hop, and tuning isn't hard either. I'd much rather have a 40 RPS R-hopped AEG than a 20 RPS PTW. It might be true that I have never seen an fully upgraded PTW before, but it cannot differ too much from a standard AEGs; both use hop ups to achieve range. Each man to his own, but I enjoy the overwhelming firing power from a high speed setup more.

This comment lacks MILSIM.

[Antikythera]

I couldn't justify spending $2000 for a 10% performance increase but if you can spend that much on airsoft to stave of a bit of frustration go for it I guess.

[Wrath144]

PTW is for people with money and no time (or patience).
AEG is for people with more time than money.
Honestly my PTW sucked dick, because I didn't have money to keep it in good shape. But it still outshot 90% of the AEGs I worked on, and I know this because I have a 260 foot range on which I test all the guns that come through. The ones that shoot equal to or better than my PTW are guns with R-hop and Prom barrels.
The ONLY thing I miss from PTWs is the trigger pull, which I'm working on replicating in AEGs now.

[Magnaroth]

I just wish PTWs had a wider range of variety in types of guns. There need to be AK and G36 varieties.

[Forever_kaos]

This is why I love Polarstar... Can stick it in a ton of weapons, easy to customize FPS and RPS.
Instant trigger response, pretty sweet results with the right hopup rubber.

Sure it probably doesn't compete with a PTW, but it's not always an M4 or MP5 which blows it away in my books!
By all means, I get why they only produce the M4 and MP5 based on their targeted marketing.

[Magnaroth]

Yeah, appealing to largest market. People just need to use cooler guns, then we wouldn't have this issue!

[ThunderCactus]

systema doesnt make guns for airsofters
FCC makes PTWs for airsofters
systema makes PTWs for law enforcement departments that can no longer afford them

And although an AEG and PTW have MANY, MANY things in common, there are still some critical differences in engineering and manufacturing. The air nozzle allows it inherently way better accuracy in full auto over an AEG. And the manufacturing tolerances are much tighter, and probably the whole reason for it's impressive and consistent performance.
Speaking from personal experience, you can take 10 G&Ps, 10 ICS, 10 king arms, 10 CA AEGs, and of those, 4/10 will be great, 3/10 will never shoot better than okay, and one will just be a demon gun forever.
Take 20 PTWs, put the same hop upgrade in all of them, and they'll all shoot exactly the same.

AEGs and PTWs use self generated air pressure and hop rubbers to propel a BB like a chevy cavalier and a GT500 use gasoline and rubber tires to race around a track lol

[Manvil]

I've owned both fully upgraded PTWs and AEGs. At the time of owning the PTWs I got into a few debates with Mcguyver about the issues and since then he's been saying a lot of the things I did back then. My current gun of choice is a lonex aeg and I have to say I'm very impressed with their QC. I've r-hopped, MOSFET and sorbo'd it and I have not shot anything that has the same accuracy, consistency and range.

I can understand the argument for a PTW. I miss using the same gun for different scenarios/indoor/outdoor. But cost vs performance is just not there, add to that I expected real steel dimensions that also aren't there. They "feel" nicer in just about every aspect, are better weighted, more robust and have a much crisper trigger pull and trigger delay, but for 10x the cost of a lonex ($250 at clandestine) I cannot see the value. I'd rather own a lonex than an FCC/systema. That's just the opinion of someone who's been on both sides drank both koolaids and is now speaking rationally.

If anyone wants to get into the design flaws of either let's make this an informative thread where people can form their own opinions.

[MaciekA]

Systema makes black holes custom-crafted to swallow up whole conversations about electric guns. The gravitational pull is impossible to escape. It's really quite amazing.

[davedave]

What are your guys's thoughts on the VFC Scar-L STD (standard longer barrel not cqb) Im wanting a gun that out of the box will perform well but also the externals to be nice as well, and hows classic army guns and kwa m4/16 br's? I'm new to tech did basic upgrades to my jg g36c LOL like hopup and tbb, no internal work.

[ThunderCactus]

CA's are crap out of the box, and generally prone to breaking quickly
They're also not true TM spec gears, so they get noisy with other gearsets

The KWA's are actually surprisingly good out of the box, but they have weak plastic cylinder heads which seems to be the #1 cause of failure, easy to fix with metal cyl head and new air nozzle.

Most mainstream guns, G&G, VFC, KWA, KA, G&P, etc just need a hop rubber upgrade and they shoot great.

[ThunderCactus]

So about the PTW's ROF in semi
Skip to 1:10 in the video, honestly I didn't even recognize the sound my gun made at first, but it's that really quick popping sound you hear lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTyq0...ature=youtu.be

Also, nice view of Wrath's ass at 1:40